A book series every "civilized" human should read

[WoW News]

WoW News
Wow Insider
MMO-Champion
World of Raids

Resources
Wowhead
Wowwiki
Lootrank
Kaliban's Class Loot lists
WoW Armory
Gem Finder Filterable List

Strategies
BossKillers
World of Strats

More links here!

[Rothana]

Ender's Game
Ender the Xenocide
Speaker for the Dead
Children of the Mind

by Orson Scott Card



I know many of you have already experienced these books, and I welcome your added comments.  I tend to be quite behind the times when it comes to reading books "you just have to read" because I often find them utterly distasteful and completely unengaging.  The Wheel of Time series was this for me (sorry Zed), and is the perfect example of the kind of book everyone says "you just have to read" that makes me say "um ick make it stop."

The Ender series, however, did not garner this reaction fro me.  I can honestly say it is in an extremely small category of books that triggered intense emotion and deep contemplation.  This story, the characters and ideas, will remain with me for a very, very long time.

As you may know, I've somewhat recently contracted (is that the right word?) Vertigo.  I've gone from reading 4-5 books a month to barely being able to tollerate reading a magazine article.  Audio books have really made this situation tollerable, and the 20th Aniversary Special Edition publication of the Ender series included a very excellent and unique audio series.  It made my experience with the story so much more intense than had the voices only been in my head from words on a page. If it is something you are able to get a hold of, even if you've already read the series, I would recommend it.

[Jay]

I've been a very avid Card fan since reading Ender's Game.

My collection of his works is considerable, and getting larger.. some of my favorites being Pastwatch: The Redemption of Christopher Columbus, and the Tales of Alvin Maker saga..

Roth, did you enjoy Ender's Game more, or were the later books more your style?

[Rothana]

I have to say that Ender's Game held my attention most raptly, and earned the most emotion (it really was not a book I should have listened to at work), however the next three, which grow increasingly phillosophical and ridiculously complex as they progress, were just as compelling.

I was really worried about how he was going to tie up lose ends, but I think I'm satisfied...though  its only been mere hours since I finished Children of the Mind, I'm quite sure it hasn't all sunk in yet.

I feel a loss right now...being "done" with the story, and losing Ender as a part of my life for the past few weeks, its rather odd.  But, I look forward to getting to know Bean better.

[Jay]

I feel a loss right now...being "done" with the story, and losing Ender as a part of my life for the past few weeks, its rather odd.  But, I look forward to getting to know Bean better.

I dunno.. Children didn't seen to be about Ender, to me.  It was Jane's story.

The Shadow series, which highlights life on Earth, while Ender is out doing his thing, is quite enjoyable as well.. although, somewhat lighter fare than Game, and certantly less so than the rest of the series.

Andrew Wiggin's appeal, is that every last one of us can relate to him, somehow... sure, hes superspecial, but even with that, hes just a kid.  We've all been there.

Bean isn't quite so everyman, but a good character in his own right.

[Snow]

I loved Ender's Game, but then my interest dropped after each of the next books.

I think he also wrote Hyperion, which was good, but strange (been awhile).

[Jay]

I loved Ender's Game, but then my interest dropped after each of the next books.

I think he also wrote Hyperion, which was good, but strange (been awhile).

Snow, if you liked Ender's Game but found the next three to be a bit.. odd.. try Ender's Shadow.

[Alle]

Those are some of my all-time favorite books, and have been since I ran across them in the library years ago. I don't like all of Card's books or stories, but some are just plain haunting.

Now I want to go hunt up a copy and read this series again

[Alle]

Yeah, the books featuring Bean are much more like Ender's Game than the later books in the series. It's interesting, since they were written after the Ender quartet was finished.

I haven't read any book by Card that wasn't at least a little strange.

[Jay]

I haven't read any book by Card that wasn't at least a little strange.

Thats the appeal.  He does sci-fi thats not sci-fi.  He does historical fiction (What would life be like if our forefathers believed in Magic), Suspense/Thriller in a supernatural vein (Treasure Box, Lost Boys)... I'm not such a big fan of his religious works,  He has a few historical fictions based on his faith of Mormonism, as well as the Women of Genesis.. they're alright, I suppose.

But hes a ery varied author, and he pulls elements to weave a story.. I think thats why they're so enjoyable, yet so strange.

In other news, it looks like the Alvin Maker saga is coming to a PC near us, from the team that makes a Tale in the Desert. W00t.

[Ataq]

I have the Ender series, The Worthing Saga (not so much a novel as a collection of shorter stories), Wyrms, a few anthologies and books 3, 4 & 5 of the Homecoming series.

So. Am I 'civilized'?    

[Zedicus]

Ok I am with you as far as Ender's Game... I felt the rest of the Ender series kinda... well... sucked.  With that said there very good books that you missed (or may not know were recently printed) are the Bean series ...  Ender's Shadow, Shadow of the Hegomon, & Shadow of the Giant.

The first is the story of battle school told from the PoV of the most intelligent person at battle school... Bean.  The rest revolve around the fallout after the bugger war and Peter's rise to power.

If you liked Ender's game these are an absolute must read.

[Snow]

Ok I am with you as far as Ender's Game... I felt the rest of the Ender series kinda... well... sucked.  With that said there very good books that you missed (or may not know were recently printed) are the Bean series ...  Ender's Shadow, Shadow of the Hegomon, & Shadow of the Giant.

The first is the story of battle school told from the PoV of the most intelligent person at battle school... Bean.  The rest revolve around the fallout after the bugger war and Peter's rise to power.

If you liked Ender's game these are an absolute must read.

Hmm, ok, with Jay and Zed's recomendations, I guess I need to check those out

[Mirth]

So. Am I 'civilized'?    

My boys are itchy

[Mirth]

Anyway. I also tremendously enjoyed Ender's game, with the latter books not being quite as enthralling, but still excellent. Card has quickly become one of my favorite authors.

[Jay]

Anyway. I also tremendously enjoyed Ender's game, with the latter books not being quite as enthralling, but still excellent. Card has quickly become one of my favorite authors.

I've been sayin' that for years.

I also strongly recommend Maps in a Mirror. Its a collection of short stories.. The boy with Goo in his head (I believe is the title) is a lovely little cyberpunkish tale..

[Rothana]

Yes, Children was Jane's story, but Jane is a product of Ender, as is Peter and Val.  The underlying framework that held the story together was Ender -  the decisions he made, the influence he had on others.  Most everyone in the story and their actions are an echo or a reaction to him.

It makes me sad that you guys didn't enjoy the rest of the series.  For me, it explored dozens of what-if's in the future of the human race.  Mirth and I had a number of interesting discussions about the ideas that Card puts forth (eg. Will there still be distinguishable cultures/races by the time we figure out how to colonize other worlds?  Will people, so technically advanced, still believe in the existance of Gods who have power over their daily lives?).  The only other author that makes me ponder things at this level is Asimov (Daneel -is- my hero).

This story is also one of the few intelligent fictional but perhaps conceptually plausible (?) looks at the far off future that doesn't predict the fall of human society.  Most futuristic stories involve dispair and desolation, a return to chaos and animalistic behavior.  I enjoy sci-fi very much, but futuristic stories of doom and gloom are very distressing to me.  This series, while definitely full of dark moments, has an underlying thread of hope that humans won't spin off into some freakish "Mad Max" existance.  Yes, humans are still making stupid decisions, but even Quara shows some redeeming qualities in the end.

Ender is the quintessential victim...and hero, the ultimate paradox in someone as flawed and real as you and I.   Like Jay said, He was written to be tangible, knowable, not as some epic champion of dreams.  The deeds are epic,  the man is just a man, like us.  You can't fully appreciate this without absorbing the entire series.

I also totally dug the scientific aspects involving the descolada research.

An interesting thought I had while composing this:  Do Mormons believe in reincarnation?

[Jay]

An interesting thought I had while composing this:  Do Mormons believe in reincarnation?

He's answered this before.  He does not, but much like JMS of Babylon 5 fame (who is an athiest), some of his best work is touching on religions..

[Alle]

it explored dozens of what-if's in the future of the human race.

Yah! I enjoyed the second through fourth books as much for the ideas as the plot. There's so much there.

The only other author that makes me ponder things at this level is Asimov (Daneel -is- my hero).

You know, I'd never thought to compare the two before, but the last three books in this series are very much like some of Azimov's books.

This story is also one of the few intelligent fictional but perhaps conceptually plausible (?) looks at the far off future that doesn't predict the fall of human society.

Yah, I don't know why people tend to be so pessimistic.  Azimov's Foundation books weren't exactly pessimistic about the future, since there was the idea that after the collapse of civilization it would rebuild, and that there were things that could be done to shorten the chaos.

An interesting thought I had while composing this: Do Mormons believe in reincarnation?

I think they believe, as Card said, that souls are immortal. They'll talk about people living in some sort of place before they're born, as spirits I think. I've also heard that they believe that after death good Mormons go to be the gods (as married pairs) of a planet. I don't think they all necessarily believe the last, or it might be figurative like streets of gold in heaven, but I'm pretty sure they believe in both a pre-life and an afterlife, but not necessarily reincarnation as we normally think of it.

[Snow]

I was getting to think that maybe I should give the books a second try, but then I read the last 2 posts....

Too much thinkin' going on here for me!

If I want philosophy, I will read Descartes or Socrates or even C.S. Lewis. (Like that will happen).

That is why I usually stick to Fantasy.

And if you want sci-fi feel good about the future of mankind, look to Star Trek

And it makes me sad that you don't like Robert Jordan..... Mainly because I like it so much,and it always feels good to have others whom you respect validate your personal tastes.  edit:  this is not meant to be sarcastic by the way.

[Zedicus]

I like Robert Jordan or that is to say I liked robert jordan with each book in which nothing happen I begin to slowly lose my enjoyment more and more

Terry Goodkin is in this same boat to great authors who tell a great tale... if they could only finish it.

[Snow]

I like Robert Jordan or that is to say I liked robert jordan with each book in which nothing happen I begin to slowly lose my enjoyment more and more

Terry Goodkin is in this same boat to great authors who tell a great tale... if they could only finish it.

LOL, yeah, I have to agree with that.

There are bits and pieces here and there of the best stories and characters ever. However, it takes a true fan (or masochist) to weed through all of the other stuff in between.

For example, I cannot get enough of Mat Cauthon and the Band of the Red. I hate reading through the excess of Aes Sedai crud just to get to a little snippet about Mat...

[Alle]

Aw Snow The books about Bean aren't philosophical, so you might like them.

[Durin]

As much as I'd like to add my two cents into this discussion (I like sci-fi discussions, but that's because I'm a geek.) I have to confess that I never made it past Ender's Game. I liked it, but, I dunno. I only read Red Mars as well. Anyway, I'll check out the sequels, I've needed something new to read.

Terry Goodkin is in this same boat to great authors who tell a great tale... if they could only finish it.

Man we must have read two different books. I hate that man, and the people who told me to read the Wizards First Rule. I couldn't find one original thought in that thing. Of course I tend to be very harsh on fantasy, I dunno why exactly, probably just more of a sci-fi fan.

[Snow]

I really only watch for a short list of authors these days.... Terry Goddkin is one of them.  To each there own I guess.  I guess you would have hated me then also, because I would recommend that book as well.

[Rothana]

I was getting to think that maybe I should give the books a second try, but then I read the last 2 posts....

Too much thinkin' going on here for me!

If I want philosophy, I will read Descartes or Socrates or even C.S. Lewis. (Like that will happen).

That is why I usually stick to Fantasy.

And if you want sci-fi feel good about the future of mankind, look to Star Trek

And it makes me sad that you don't like Robert Jordan..... Mainly because I like it so much,and it always feels good to have others whom you respect validate your personal tastes.  edit:  this is not meant to be sarcastic by the way.

There's plenty of plot and character development amidst all that phillosophy (particuarly related to learning about the Pekeninos), and hey - Demosthenes has just as many valid ideas as Descartes or Socrates.  That C.S. Lewis guy though...I loved Lion (in the 5th grade) but his other stuff got kinda weird.

I usually stick to fantasy too, with the exception of Star Wars, Star Trek, and Asimov.

About Robert Jordan...I guess you have to understand my background in being forced to read so-called "classics" as a kid, far too young to have any business in them.  There became a writing style that I quickly identified with in a very negative way, and Jordan's style stomped on every single one of those triggers in me.  I got through the book, because so many of you held it in such high regard, and I really did find the actual storyline interesting.  If only he didn't have to interject all the extemporaneous details,  and the ridiculously obscure references to half a dozen religions and phillosophies and rolled them all up into such a bizarre conglomeration as to sound original, I'd have faired better.